In Every War, The Truth Is The First Victim. Palestine.

stock here: lots to unpack, A-Eye helps

You said:
give me a reality check on all this, and i thought in early 1900’s what is now palestine and gaza was a thriving palestinian society with lots of trade and culture…..

Basic History for the Uninformed:

1. Before Israel, there was a British mandate, not a Palestinian state.
2. Before the British Mandate, there was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state.
3. Before the Ottoman Empire, there was the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state.
4. Before the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, there was the Ayubid-Kurdish Empire, not a Palestinian state.
5. Before the Ayubid Empire, there was the Crusader Frankish and the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state.
6. Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there were the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not a Palestinian state.
7. Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine empire, not a Palestinian state.
8. there was the Sassanid-Persian Empire before the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state.
9. Before the Sassanid-Persian Empire, there was the Byzantine Empire again, not a Palestinian state.
10. there was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state, before the Byzantine Empire.
11. Before the Roman Empire, there was the Jewish Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state.
12. Before the Jewish Hasmonean state was the Hellenistic Seleucid Empire, not a Palestinian state.
13. Before the Hellenistic Seleucid empire, there was Alexander the Great’s empire, not a Palestinian state.
14. Before Alexander the Great, there was the Persian empire, not a Palestinian state.
15. Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state.
16. Before the Babylonian Empire, the kingdoms of Israel and Judah were not Palestinian states.
17. Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
18. Before the Kingdom of Israel, there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state.
19. Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state.

There have been many governments there, but never a Palestine.

ChatGPT said:
Reality Check: History, Identity, and Nationhood in Palestine
Your list accurately presents a chronology of ruling powers in the region now known as Israel, Palestine, and surrounding territories. However, framing history strictly in terms of statehood rather than people, culture, and identity is incomplete. Let’s break it down in a clearer and more balanced way.

1. Was there ever a “State of Palestine” in modern history?
   No, there has never been a sovereign nation-state called “Palestine” in the modern legal sense. However:

Nation-states as we define them today (with clear borders and centralized governments) didn’t even exist in most of human history.
That doesn’t mean Palestinians didn’t exist. They were part of larger empires and ruling systems, much like many other peoples who lacked independent states.

2. Was Palestine a thriving society before Israel?
   Yes. While it was under Ottoman and later British control, the area known as Palestine (including Gaza and the West Bank) had a mix of Arab, Jewish, Christian, and other communities with rich trade, agriculture, and culture.

Late Ottoman Era (1800s–1917): Major Palestinian cities like Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem were commercial hubs, with vibrant markets, trade routes, and cultural exchanges.
British Mandate (1917–1948): Palestine had newspapers, political parties, universities, and a growing national identity.
The idea that Palestine was empty or undeveloped before Israel is misleading.

3. Why wasn’t there a Palestinian state before Israel?
   Palestinians, like many other Arab communities, were part of larger empires (Ottoman, Mamluk, etc.) for centuries, and the modern concept of nation-states was imposed by European colonial powers in the 20th century.

The British prevented Palestinian statehood, much like they did with other colonies, because of geopolitical interests.
The UN proposed partitioning the land into separate Jewish and Arab states in 1947, but conflict broke out, and no independent Palestinian state emerged.

4. If Palestine wasn’t a state, does that mean Palestinians aren’t a people?
   No. Palestinians are an ethnic, cultural, and historical people, just as Kurds, Tibetans, and other stateless nations are.

Many nations existed long before they had official states (e.g., Italy and Germany only unified in the 19th century).
The absence of a formal “Palestinian state” in history doesn’t mean Palestinians are not a real people with a legitimate history in the land.

5. What about Jews in the region?
   Jews have an ancient connection to the land going back thousands of years.
   The Jewish population in Palestine grew significantly in the late 19th and early 20th centuries due to Zionist immigration, especially from Europe.
   The conflict is not about whether Jews belong—it’s about how two national groups (Jews and Arabs) with deep ties to the land can or cannot coexist politically.
6. What’s the actual debate today?
   Israelis see the land as their historic and rightful homeland.
   Palestinians see it as their homeland, where they lived for centuries before the creation of Israel.
   The question is how to resolve competing claims, not whether one side has the right to exist.
   Conclusion
   No, Palestine was not an independent nation-state before Israel.
   Yes, Palestinian society existed, with trade, culture, and governance under various empires.
   Both Israelis and Palestinians have legitimate historical ties to the land.
   The challenge today is how to reconcile these competing histories and claims rather than denying either side’s existence.
   This is a complex issue, but reducing it to “there was never a Palestinian state” misses the bigger picture—history is about more than just legal borders.