Funny how they post party pictures
They have some interesting discussion boards, this one is on Fukushima
https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,26998.25.html
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« Reply #163 on: Mar 14, 2011, 05:03 »
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Will someone please explain wind direction and
source term to the people driving the big boat...I take it they have
been briefed by now. Perhaps there was an unexpected shift in wind
direction. Perhaps radioactivity will be released when those
"explosions" occur. Perhaps a little KI before you decide to park in
the downwind direction. Just hoping the best for our kids out there on
that big adventure. I'm sure I just don't have the context. Probably
one of those "you just had to be there" moments. I'm sure the nukes on
the Reagan have expressed their questioning attitude about driving
through the plume. Maybe they were getting an air sample. Yeah, that's
it, an air sample.
Reply #37 on: Mar 11, 2011, 06:30 » | |
1000xs normal seems to be absurd, media frenzy. |
« Reply #24 on: Mar 11, 2011, 04:49 »
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If they lost all power, and the ability to use hpci/rcic, then they would have blown down the reactor to the suppression pool by now. Assuming they also lost power to containment cooling and sprays, is the only reason I could see them venting to atmosphere.
Since it appears they've lost all power, they are no doubt into the T-200s for venting. The reactor should be 2/3rds covered, at least, and down near 50-150 pounds if they are anything like ours... meaning safe. Decay heat is also much less than 1% by now.
Of course, this is also assuming they have TRIPS similar to ours.
A loss of all offsite power was one of my fortes at Peach Bottom, but admittedly, an earthquake throws a wrench into the works that isn't often covered over in my neck of the woods. However, there would have to be A LOT of things go wrong that would prevent them from keeping the reactor depressurized right now. That is why it is my wager that the reactor is fine, and that containment is their concern. Again though, I don't know what they have in the way of say.. diesel driven fire pumps or back up nitrogen to ADS. The media keeps saying reactor pressure though, which means a lot of thing would have to go wrong. Besides a loss of power, they would have had to lose nitrogen to their ADS valves, which require no power to operate. If there is one thing you should be able to always do at a BWR, its blow the reactor down to the suppression feature. So not knowing exactly what they have/don't have, or that what the media is saying is accurate, there really is no way to tell. I am just trying to think about what I'd be doing if I was back at Peach Bottom and this happened.
One thing I do know is that I would love to be in their control room right now. [stock:really now do you, in retrospect!]
=======================================================
And here is a commemoration of a TEPCO announcement
TOKYO ELECTRIC POWER COMPANY
Corporate Information
Press Releases
Press Release (Mar 12,2011)
Plant Status of Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station (as of 1PM March 12th )
Unit 1 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- At 8:19am, there was an alarm indicating that one of the control rods
was not properly inserted, however, at 10:43am the alarm was automatically
called off. Other control rods has been confirmed that they are fully
inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core
Isolation Cooling System, but at 3:48AM, injection by Make-up Water
Condensate System begun.
- At 6:08PM, we announced the increase in reactor containment vessel
pressure, assumed to be due to leakage of reactor coolant. However, we
do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel at this moment.
- At 5:22AM, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100
degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 5:22AM,
it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in article 15,
clause 1 has occurred.
- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation
work started at around 9:43am.
Unit 2 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core
Isolation Cooling System, but at 4:50AM, injection by Make-up Water
Condensate System begun.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.
- At 5:22AM, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100
degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 5:22AM,
it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in article 15,
clause 1 has occurred.
- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation
work commenced at around 10:33AM and completed at 10:58AM.
Unit 3 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System is turned off. Currently,
injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate
System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.
- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation
work commenced at around 12:08PM and completed at 12:13AM.
- At 12:15PM, the reactor achieved cold shut down.
Unit 4 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System is turned off. Currently,
injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate
System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.
- In order to cool down the reactor, injection of water into the reactor
had been done by the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System, however,
At 6:07AM, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100
degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost,
at 6:07AM, it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in
article 15,clause 1 has occurred.
[stock here: that is the code words for saying "meltdown"]
- We decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of
the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing
radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. This preparation
work commenced at around 11:44AM and completed at 11:52AM.
Indication from monitoring posts installed at the site boundary did not
show any difference from ordinary level.
No radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed. We
will continue to monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material
being discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal.
There is no missing person within the power station.
We are presently checking on the site situation of each plant while
keeping the situation of aftershock and Tsunami in mind.
A seriously injured worker is still trapped in the crane operating console
of the exhaust stack and his breathing and pulse cannot be confirmed.
Currently, the rescue efforts are under way.
A worker was lightly injured spraining his left ankle and cutting both
knees when he fell while walking at the site. After medical treatment,
the worker is resting in the office.
ALL Right Reserved Copylight 2
Legal Notices
« Reply #63 on: Mar 12, 2011, 04:53 »
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There's been an explosion at the plant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU#t=43s
Details thus far are sketchy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg4uogOEUrU#t=43s
Details thus far are sketchy.
That video is horrific. They just decimated secondary containment - let hope it wasn't caused by the overpressurization of primary containment...
Women don't like nuclear
Hey I thought women didn't like nuclear......
I'll toss a few more rocks out at the 'scientific community'. The direct threat to most larger sea creatures directly from radiation in the water is small. The real threat is bio-amplification throughout the food chain. Seems like a good place to go is right off the Japanese coast and start grabbing phytoplankton and zooplankton and see what those little bastards are sucking up. Then check the things that eat them: krill. Shouldn't be too hard to find any - in fact the coast off of Fukushima was one of the richest Pacific Krill fishing areas in the entire Pacific the last couple of decades.
Are the krill accumulating anything?
Is is getting better or worse? Well, we don't know except the food chain has also crashed off of Fukushima, just like it's crashing off of the West Coast. Try to Google a study, article or even a conspiracy nutjob blog where ANYONE has done a serious radiation study of plankton and krill off of U.S. coasts, much less off of Fukushima. Nothing. Almost like they wouldn't think it matters. And no studies for the last few years means we have nothing to compare it with even if someone did a huge study today. There have been plenty of studies on raw seawater, but the amounts are barely detectable.
I don't really give a crap because I don't drink much seawater.
About the only reports I did see is how there isn't even as much cesium as 'naturally-occurring Polonium-210' in fish. Well, there was always microscopic amounts of Polonium-210 from radon decay, but it's like 20,000 times more toxic than cyanide. The Po-210 alpha decay causes about a thousand times more damage to chromosomes than the beta decay of our old banana friend: Potassium-40. So if a fish had 1/10th the amount of Po-210 vs. P-40 (radiation-wise), the Polonium would still be causing 100 times more chromosome damage than a the decay of potassium. Gosh, they never mention that in banana-dose calculus.
No harm in a little 'natural' Polonium-210 in fish, right? I guess unless you're an ex-Russian spy in exile in London like Litvenenko. He got a massive 10 microgram dose, but you really only need 50 nanograms on average to kill you. And, yes, it kills entirely throught acute radiation poisoning - not chemical toxicity. Incidentally, as a liquid-borne alpha emitter, it would be impossible to measure its presence with a Geiger counter or even a sensitive gamma detector for that matter. Litvenenko's hospital had him there for weeks and tested him for radiation several times and found nothing - because they were using gamma detectors like they always did and they wouldn't detect polonium-210's lethal alpha, especially in bodily fluids. You need alpha spectrometers and a completely different way of preparing a sample.
So no big deal in fish because polonium is 'natural' right? Well, since they haven't bothered to measure it except in samples AFTER Fukushima, we really don't have much to compare it with. Common sense says that there is a crapload of highly-toxic polonium-210 in fish that probably wasn't there before Fukushima. Polonium-210 is part of the uranium decay chain. Uranium - I believe several hundred tons of uranium were either launched into the air or are being continually washed into the sea right now from Fukushima. But the fuel rods also had plenty of uranium decay products before they melted. How many 50 nanogram lethal doses of polonium were in the hundreds of tons of fuel rods that melted down? Maybe some scientist should ask themselves if we 1) suddenly have like 10x or 100x the amount of 'natural radon' in the atmosphere turning into polonium, or 2) the three uranium-lava cores of the reactors are somehow responsible for the increase.
I have no idea if polonium-210 is the biggest or even a major danger from Pacific seafood OR if it has anything to do with Fukushima. That's just one thing I can think of that is remarkable by it's (apparently) complete absence of study in the scientific community. It might be nothing. Maybe the whole West Coast thing CAN be explained by sea lion overpopulation and warmer water temperatures.
Call me a nutter but - personally - I'm trying to cut back on my imaginary polonium intake. A nanogram here and a nanogram there, and pretty soon you're bleeding out every orifice of your body. You know how funny people get about THAT nowadays.